+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Symptoms of and info on Chiari...

  1. #1
    lovin' my lambdoid cutie boy! evergreenmom will become famous soon enough evergreenmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Greater Seattle
    Posts
    2,937
    Rep Power
    26

    Default Symptoms of and info on Chiari...

    I came across this yesterday...thought it was a pretty thorough discussion of possible symptoms for anyone interested in Chiari malformation/ hindbrain herniation/ tonsillar ectopia.

    We have been lucky so far that Xander has a diagnosis so we can monitor him as he grows. It is very important to know that you have a chiari and to keep an eye on it as neural problems can occur if it goes unchecked. So far he seems to be without symptom as many young children are. I spent some time reading a support forum of chiari sufferers and it seems many of them never knew they had a chiari until they were 30 or 40 and suddenly started having symptoms- some of them pretty life altering. For now all I can do is educate myself and others regarding this disturbing possible secondary diagnosis of cranio and hope Xander never does have any issues with his 5mm herniation.

    Chiari Research Info for doctors

    ************************************************** ************************************************** *********************************
    A study published in the March, 2004 issue of the Journal of the American Academy of Nurse Practitioners has verified what Chiari patients have known for years; namely, that while some symptoms are common to many Chiari sufferers, the malformation also causes an array of symptoms which can vary widely from person to person. Indeed, one of the more common email questions this publication receives is asking whether X, Y, and Z symptoms are related to Chiari.

    This plethora of Chiari related symptoms is not only a source of frustration for patients, but it is also a contributing factor to the all too often missed and delayed diagnoses that many patients endure. Both statistical and anecdotal evidence show that many patients go through doctor after doctor, and years of suffering, before being correctly diagnosed. The varied, vague, and sometimes fleeting symptoms can make an early diagnosis difficult. This not only takes an emotional toll on the patient is who being given ineffective treatments, or being told it's all in their head, but some research has shown that the longer someone is symptomatic before treatment, the less chance they have of a good outcome.

    In an attempt to help Primary Care Providers (PCPs) diagnose - or at least suspect - Chiari, Dr. Diane Mueller, a Neurosurgery Nurse Practitioner, and neurosurgeon, Dr. John Oro, undertook a study to examine what symptoms patients with MRI verified Chiari first talked about (or to use the medical term, presented). What they found was both encouraging for PCP's making earlier diagnoses and validating for every patient who has a laundry list of symptoms.

    In the study, Dr. Mueller analyzed the self-reported symptoms of 265 Chiari patients who ranged in age from 12-78. The group included 221 women and 44 men. The size of the malformations ranged from 3mm-30mm, with most patients falling in the 5mm-10mm range. Thirty-seven patients had syrinxes, although not every patient underwent a full spine MRI. Interestingly, 3 patients had thoracic syrinxes, without the more common cervical syrinx. Also of note is that 3 patients were asymptomatic.

    The encouraging part of what the researchers found is that 13 symptoms were reported by more than half the patients, with 98% of them saying they suffered from headaches. While the headache finding is not surprising, Dr. Mueller points out that the way Chiari headaches are usually described by patients is different than standard tension and migraine headaches. Chiari headaches are usually described as starting in the back of the head and sometimes radiating forward to behind the eyes. The pain is described as a feeling of intense pressure, or even explosive in nature, and is brought on or aggravated by straining (Valsalva maneuver), coughing, sneezing, posture, singing, laughing, etc. The study also noted that some patients had modified their lifestyles to avoid situations, such as singing or laughing, which would bring on the headaches.

    The validating part of the research - at least from a patient's perspective - is the tremendous variation among symptoms. Forty-nine distinct symptoms were reported by two or more people and 95% of the patients reported 5 or more symptoms. As demonstrated by the extensive list, Chiari can affect many different parts of the body in many different ways. And of course, once the body is compromised for an extended period of time, secondary factors, like depression, come into play.

    Symptoms Reported By At Least 50% Of Patients

    Symptom-%

    Headache-98
    Dizziness-84
    Difficulty sleeping-72
    Weakness in arms/hands-69
    Neck pain-67
    Numbness/tingling in arm, hand-62
    Fatigue-59
    Nausea-58
    Shortness of breath-57
    Blurred Vision-57
    Tinnitus-56
    Difficulty swallowing-54
    Leg weakness-52

    Symptoms Reported By Less Than 50% Of Patients

    (20%-50%) - depression, body weakness, balance problem, memory problems, leg/foot numbness, hoarse voice, chest pain, facial numbness, anxiety, slurred speech, arm pain, abdominal pain, photo-phobia

    (<20%) - tachycardia, trouble hearing, vomiting, double vision, word-finding problems, vision loss, blackouts, apnea(night), vertigo, loss of peripheral vision, nystagmus, earache, nosebleeds, snoring, thoracic pain, hypo-tension, wake up choking, leg pain, palpitations, hypertension, abnormal gag reflex, facial pain/tingling
    ************************************************** ************************************************** ********************************
    Last edited by evergreenmom; 04-08-2010 at 01:43 PM.
    Kristin, Momma of two rambunctious cuties:
    Lucy born 3/05 "failure to thrive"- negative percentile on growth chart for weight 3/06 to 3/08
    Xander born 3/08 Left Lambdoid Synostosis and Chiari Malformation- Posterior CVR Surgery 2/09 w/ Dr Fearon and Dr Sacco at Medical City Hospital Dallas, TX (fought insurance and won in network gap exception) rant rant rant....

  2. #2
    Jenny has a spectacular aura about Jenny has a spectacular aura about Jenny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    southeast MI
    Age
    32
    Posts
    5,855
    Rep Power
    51

    Default

    Thats a good list of the symptoms!

    My DH has chairi I.. we just found out last year.. he started having symptoms over ten years ago, after an auto accident. He's being treated with meds for now.

    Stress is also a big flare up causer. He is definately worse when he is stressed out! Also his doctor said certain foods, alot that are high in fat or caffiene, also make it worse.
    Jenny
    Mikayla ~ February 18, 03 Bi-Coronal Craniosynostosis-read her story http://craniokids.org/support/showth...hlight=mikayla
    Anabelle ~ 10/05
    Jaden Michael ~ 9/08



  3. #3
    Momof2Boys is just starting out Momof2Boys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Apopka, FL
    Posts
    806
    Rep Power
    19

    Default

    Thank you for the information. I wonder about this with Justin but the nurse at the neurologist said his last MRI did not show Chiari. Do they need to do a certain type of MRI or actually be looking for this?
    Jamie

    Mom of 2 wonderful boys! ;)
    Wife to hubby that survived testicular cancer 2009
    Jacob - 6 years old
    Justin - 3 years old~ Right Lambdoid synostosis/
    Surgery 10/22/07 , sleep apnea, multiple food allergies, acid reflux, low muscle tone, pectus, asthma, and chiari malformation secondary to cranio.

    Faith, Hope and Love

    Justin's Story
    www.caringbridge.org/visit/justinjones

  4. #4
    lovin' my lambdoid cutie boy! evergreenmom will become famous soon enough evergreenmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Greater Seattle
    Posts
    2,937
    Rep Power
    26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Momof2Boys View Post
    Thank you for the information. I wonder about this with Justin but the nurse at the neurologist said his last MRI did not show Chiari. Do they need to do a certain type of MRI or actually be looking for this?
    Jamie-

    I don't for sure know the answer, but I believe if they do a Brain MRI they should be able to see it. I think it is also possible to have a very small herniation that is not considered a "chiari"- less than 5mm I believe. I also know that the cerebellum itself is part of this so if you have a crowded cerebellum perhaps some of the same symptoms could occur. Does Justin gag a lot or have trouble swallowing? That is a big sign from what I understand. When do you see the doctor again- I would have him show you the brain scan and ask him if Justin's cerebellum has enough room. We saw Xander's scan from 2 days before surgery side by side with his scan from one year post op- the difference was remarkable- before surgery his cerebellum actually looked squished and now it appears to have plenty of room. I guess the question is did Justin's surgery make "enough" room back there?

    I am only just starting to learn more about all of this. Xander's doctors feel his chiari is not a problem for him at this time and they tell me it may never be a problem. I am very much hoping they are right, but I feel it is serious and I should be prepared and know as much as possible about it just in case.

    Jenny-

    I knew your DH had chiari, but I didn't know it had started with an accident. Did he know at the time of the accident that there had been brain trauma? Was the chiari caused by swelling to the brain? I hope his meds are helping him. I read that the surgery is very invasive( long painful recovery) and for some people symptoms are not even relieved post op.

    Like I said I have been lurking( oh my!) around chiari support sites looking for info- it seems you are either born with a chiari or often some sort of trauma or damage occurs. In the case of cranio it is more likely a case of damage from closed sutures than an actual birth defect. Dr Fearon told me chiari is much more prevalent in cranio kids than in the general population. For some reason that I have not yet figured out many doctors don't give this condition much credence (maybe the stress factor Jenny was talking about). I saw on the support forums many cases in which the patient went from doc to doc looking for help- had a brain MRI which showed chiari and the doc's didn't even tell them this could be the cause of their symptoms!!! Many of these people only found out because they asked for the radiology report or in some cases read about chiari online and went to a known chiari specialist (as opposed to just any neurologist/ neurosurgeon) who told them they have it!!! I read this with chills running down my spine- so grateful Dr Fearon diagnosed Xander's chiari so at least we know what we are dealing with if symptoms do occur.

    It reminds me so much of cranio and how a lot of us were told our babies head would round out.... "don't worry it's just a little plagiocephaly"... You really have to be informed and act as your own health advocate in this world. Just a head's up on this- don't mean to terrify you all- chiari is uncommon- just thought we should all be aware of the correlation, and know the symptoms just in case.
    Kristin, Momma of two rambunctious cuties:
    Lucy born 3/05 "failure to thrive"- negative percentile on growth chart for weight 3/06 to 3/08
    Xander born 3/08 Left Lambdoid Synostosis and Chiari Malformation- Posterior CVR Surgery 2/09 w/ Dr Fearon and Dr Sacco at Medical City Hospital Dallas, TX (fought insurance and won in network gap exception) rant rant rant....

  5. #5
    Momof2Boys is just starting out Momof2Boys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Apopka, FL
    Posts
    806
    Rep Power
    19

    Default

    Justin does have trouble swallowing, I have to cut his chicken nuggets up into 4 pieces so he doesn't gag. Plus he had this whole gagging episode at the hospital last month as he was being discharge. It looked like he couldn't breathe but all his vitals where good. It took him over an hour before he was able to throw up and he was fine. I am not sure if the swallowing issue is more of low muscle tone since he doesn't chew up his food either.
    He goes back to the neurologist and NS in July. I will ask about a copy of his MRI. I know the doctors tend not to tell you everything. I remember seeing these shadows on the right side of his skull from his CT. I later found out after his surgery that the brain was thinning his skull. I am just trying to gather as much info to figure out what is really going on with Justin. Thank you again for all your information.
    Jamie

    Mom of 2 wonderful boys! ;)
    Wife to hubby that survived testicular cancer 2009
    Jacob - 6 years old
    Justin - 3 years old~ Right Lambdoid synostosis/
    Surgery 10/22/07 , sleep apnea, multiple food allergies, acid reflux, low muscle tone, pectus, asthma, and chiari malformation secondary to cranio.

    Faith, Hope and Love

    Justin's Story
    www.caringbridge.org/visit/justinjones

  6. #6
    Jenny has a spectacular aura about Jenny has a spectacular aura about Jenny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    southeast MI
    Age
    32
    Posts
    5,855
    Rep Power
    51

    Default

    Very little is known about Chiari. Most doctors are very uneducated about it, and can't agree on its conditions. There is a specific MRI that should be done, BUT it can be seen on a regular one as well. In my husband's case, they actually caught it on a CT scan because he was complaining about migraine headaches. He never put it together that they started after his accident. Because they suspected Chiari with the CT, our PCP then had him have a MRI with contrast, and that confirmed it. What you really want though is an MRI with CINE flow. The size of chiari actually does not determine the symptoms, but the amount of cerebral spinal fluid that passes throw does. IF the fluid can't flow, then thats when symptoms occur. Of course other symptoms occur with a bigger herniation because of the compression as well, and thats where pain comes in.

    For my dh, they didn't realize there was any trauma with his accident. He just lived life thinking he had migraines. Recently they had gotten really bad and he had a lot of stress at work, so he finally broke down and went to our dr. We are very lucky in that we have a wonderful PCP. He at least knew what Chiari was, but even still is not very educated in it.
    You will find that the majority of dr's do not know what they are talking about, even nuerologists. You just have to keep pushing for answers until you're comfortable.
    We almost opted for surgery. We were doing the meds and he wasnt getting much relief, but then he ahd a job change at work whch took a whole lot of stress off, and he's been doing better.. still has the pain, but not nearly as bad.
    For him, his main complaint is headaches. He also has neck pain, and numbness and pain in his left arm. He also has RLS.
    Jenny
    Mikayla ~ February 18, 03 Bi-Coronal Craniosynostosis-read her story http://craniokids.org/support/showth...hlight=mikayla
    Anabelle ~ 10/05
    Jaden Michael ~ 9/08



  7. #7
    fullhouse3b2g will become famous soon enough fullhouse3b2g's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Newport News, VA
    Posts
    1,657
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    Thanks for posting this.

    Isaac has chiari. He also has a huge cyst that displaces his whole cerebellum. A lot of the symptoms from each condition are the same so it'a hard to tell which symptoms he has from which condition.

    When he was having some major symptoms, we had to take him to the ER. They did an MRI there. The ER doctor came into our room and told us there was "absolutely NOTHING wrong with your son's brain!" He said that they especially looked in the cerebellum because with all the symptoms that my son had it would suggest something being wrong in the cerebellum. He went on to tell us that "Isaac's cerebellum couldn't be more perfect!".

    We got a copy of those same MRI's and took them to Isaac's NS who took one look at them and diagnosed the cyst and chiari. It just goes to show that not all doctors are knowlegeable even if they're specifically looking for problems in that area. After seeing the films myself I find it hard to believe that that ER doc didn't see anything wrong. It's really obvious to even an unknowledgable parent that there's something going on in the back of his head on those films.

    See what I mean?



    Proud Mommy to

    Caleb -17
    Ethan -13
    Joanna -11
    Olivia -9
    Isaac -5-Metopic Cranio, no surgery;Chiari Malformation and Posterior Fossa Cyst, surgery 4/1/08 & 12/03/08; Pseudomeningocele and CSF leak, surgery 12/18/08; Multiple congenital Heart Defects, Autism, Multiple Birth Defects

    http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/i.m.lucky

  8. #8
    Registered User Janet Test Rep Janet Test Rep Janet Test Rep Janet Test Rep Janet Test Rep Janet Test Rep Janet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
    Age
    39
    Posts
    20,403
    Blog Entries
    3
    Rep Power
    123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fullhouse3b2g View Post
    When he was having some major symptoms, we had to take him to the ER. They did an MRI there. The ER doctor came into our room and told us there was "absolutely NOTHING wrong with your son's brain!" He said that they especially looked in the cerebellum because with all the symptoms that my son had it would suggest something being wrong in the cerebellum. He went on to tell us that "Isaac's cerebellum couldn't be more perfect!".

    We got a copy of those same MRI's and took them to Isaac's NS who took one look at them and diagnosed the cyst and chiari. It just goes to show that not all doctors are knowlegeable even if they're specifically looking for problems in that area. After seeing the films myself I find it hard to believe that that ER doc didn't see anything wrong. It's really obvious to even an unknowledgable parent that there's something going on in the back of his head on those films.

    Leigh did you ever contact that doctor or the hospital?
    Mom to Noah (no cranio)
    Fiona (Metopic):
    Surgery #1 CVR/FOA 9-26-07 (age 10 months) Sick kids in Toronto with Dr. Phillips (PS) Dr Kulkarni (NS)
    Surgery #2 Cyst removed over left eye 9/08 Dr. Phillips (PS)
    Surgery #3 Cranioplasty 10-18-11 (almost 5 years old) for soft spots filled in with titanium plates/peek implant from bone resorption and scar revision. Dr. Phillips


  9. #9
    fullhouse3b2g will become famous soon enough fullhouse3b2g's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Newport News, VA
    Posts
    1,657
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    Janet~ I was never able to contact that ER doctor again (that's probably a good thing too LOL), but I was able to talk to some other doctors at the same ER after Isaac's first surgery. I think they were able to see how distraught I was that the doctor had "missed" something that big. I encouraged them to PLEASE take this stuff seriously for kids like Isaac!
    Proud Mommy to

    Caleb -17
    Ethan -13
    Joanna -11
    Olivia -9
    Isaac -5-Metopic Cranio, no surgery;Chiari Malformation and Posterior Fossa Cyst, surgery 4/1/08 & 12/03/08; Pseudomeningocele and CSF leak, surgery 12/18/08; Multiple congenital Heart Defects, Autism, Multiple Birth Defects

    http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/i.m.lucky

  10. #10
    Momof2Boys is just starting out Momof2Boys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Apopka, FL
    Posts
    806
    Rep Power
    19

    Default

    Wow, it is amazing how us parents have to double check these doctors. We pay them all this money and yet get no answers or even the wrong answer. FRUSTRATING!!!
    Jamie

    Mom of 2 wonderful boys! ;)
    Wife to hubby that survived testicular cancer 2009
    Jacob - 6 years old
    Justin - 3 years old~ Right Lambdoid synostosis/
    Surgery 10/22/07 , sleep apnea, multiple food allergies, acid reflux, low muscle tone, pectus, asthma, and chiari malformation secondary to cranio.

    Faith, Hope and Love

    Justin's Story
    www.caringbridge.org/visit/justinjones

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts